Monday, April 07, 2008

Don't You Dare Hold Us Accountable Or...

We will shame you, call you all kinds of colorful names, and tell you to "get some help." Yes, apparently, that is exactly what Gortexgrrl, one of the most radical of the Mandatory Marriage advocates, done in an attempt to defend "Captain Sensible" [aka, Deanna Holmes] from having to be held responsible for the hatred she has spewed at myself and Ted Slater.

Here are her posts, in order:

Adam, you know what I'm talking about -- posting her photo, personal information, etc. You've both engaged in some pretty intense mud-slinging, but nothing she has said about you even begins to compare with this kind of exposure and character assassination. This is your eighth post in a row about her. You have gone way too far with this. It's so spiteful and mean-spirited. The sheer wickedness of what you have done eclipses any theological truth that may have been intended. You are nowhere near being in the company of these Calvinist greats. Surely, if they could see what you have done they would certainly shake their heads and walk away from you.Shame on you.
Excuses, excuses.Basically, you're giving us the "bu-bu-but, she started it" little brother business.It's very plain to see where your heart is at, Adam. It's all about retaliation for you, isn't it?
Adam,If you have to be shown, chapter and verse, post for post, why what you did was wicked and vengeful, then there really is not much hope for you.
You have carried on now, for eight posts about CS. And in the same amount of time, she's mentioned your blog perhaps twice and on one occasion she contritely retracted -- something I doubt you would ever do.Not only to yourself, but to your school, you bring shame. It's just absolutely disgraceful.

First off, again, notice the pure acid from the folks in this movement. I have received a whole lot of mail from these folks, and it is by far the nastiest stuff I have ever read. I have talked with Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, and King James Only advocates, and the notes that I have received from these folks are, by far, the most nasty of any group.

However, let us take a look at her claims one by one, and we will say that any person thinking rationally about this situation will be forced to the conclusion that, for some reason, these folks do not want to be held accountable for their behavior.

First of all, yes, the last eight posts mention Captain Sensible, but, first of all, who else do they mention? Debbie Maken, Ted Slater, William Shishko, etc. Not only that, but did she notice how many of Captain Sensible's posts mention Ted Slater? I went to her blog and found that six out of the eight posts now up there mention or allude to Ted Slater in some way shape or form. Yet, why is it that Gortexgrrl is not over there accusing Deanna Holmes of the same things she is accusing me? The double standards here are amazing.

Not only that, but let us not forget the number of times that Captain Sensible has used terms such as "false teacher" of Carolyn McCulley. Yet, Gortexgrrl refuses to say anything about that. Now, I am not saying that this exhonorates me of wrongdoing if, indeed, I have done something wrong. It is just amazing how Gortexgrrl uses one standard on those who oppose her movement, but another standard on those who support her movement.

The reality is, if you look at my posts, my posts are not personal attacks on Captain Sensible. They are discussions of what she is teaching, and how it is dangerious to the church, imparticular, the church in England. They are also discussions of her and Debbie Maken's behavior showing the fruits of this movement in terms of how selfish these people bahave. Not only that, but it is also a discussion about the way her and Debbie Maken treat those that disagree with them, yes, even those who agree with their movement such as Ted Slater! Gortexgrrl would have you believe that I have some personal vendetta against this woman. I simply do not. I am concerned about what she is teaching, and I am concerned about the fruits of the radical version of this movement. Does that mean that, if someone takes the shots that she has taken against me and Ted Slater that I am not going to call her to the carpet for it? Absolutely not. However, that seems to be the expectation. We can hit you, but don't you dare hold us accountable for it. There is nothing wrong with using eight posts to continuiously point out the ungodly behavior and nastiness of this movement so that others will avoid it.

Not only that, but notice how she uses words like "personal information" as if I had put her credit card number up on the internet or something. Everything that I put up had already been posted on the internet long before I ever saw it! The only difference is that now I am letting people know that Captain Sensible is this woman who was interviewed over on Spiral Universe. Why is there some problem with that? Why is there something wrong with finding out that the person who has written personal attacks against you and Ted Slater happens to have a name, and posting it so that people know exactly who is responsible for this acid? Secondly, she says I engaged in character assasination. On the blog, I asked her to prove it. She never did.

Also, she says that what I did is "spiteful." I am beginning to notice that you can make anything wrong so long as you use the right vocabulary [and, yes, Debbie Maken does this too]. No, I am simply pointing out that this attack across my bow is coming from a very influential figure in the church in England, and that this figure is directly responsible for the personal attacks she has written against Ted Slater and myself. BTW, just to show that I am consistent at this point, I have criticized people from my own side when they have behaved in the same way. Apparently, I was also being "spiteful" to the manyluxuryvacations blog when I wrote that post.

Secondly, as far as posting retractions, I even mentioned that I had to apologize for the harshness of my language. However, again, that does not matter to Gortexgrrl. I would never post a retraction, and don't confuse me with the facts. Also, isn't it interesting that I have changed my perspective on a whole host of views with regards to this issue. I now no longer hold the same interpretation of Genesis 1:28, Malachi 2:15, 1 Corinthians 7, and many other texts that I held when I first started writing on this issue. However, you know something very interesting? I have *never* heard Debbie Maken admit that she is wrong. Even when her position results in utter nonsense, she refuses to admit she is wrong. Yet, according to Gortexgrrl, I am the one who would never retract a post.

Again, the hypocracy of Gortexgrrl's attack on me is simply unbelievable. She tells me I need to "get some help." Let me ask, how does Gortexgrrl understand this verse?:

2 Timothy 2:24 - 26 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, 25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

Does it sound like this girl is showing much "gentleness" using phrases like "get some help?" Does that show much "patience?" Interestingly enough, this is in the context of refuting false teachers! How do you understand this verse if you follow Debbie Maken, and language such as this is acceptable?

I think we all need to restart, and attempt to deal with this issue in the very manner spoken of in this verse. I am willing to do so, but, apparently, Captain Sensible and Gortexgrrl are not. I simply let that contrast speak for itself with regards to the integrity of the folks that are part of the radical version of this movement.


gortexgrrl said...

And so you, Adam, have been "not quarrelsome... kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition", particularly when you posted CS's photo on your blog?

Any crossed finger apology you think you made has surely been undone with all the vitriol you've since spewed.

You're hardly in any position to hold anyone accountable.

Take the log out of your own eye.

PuritanCalvinist said...


So, now you have to be perfect in order to hold your movement accountable????????? Again, from your perspective, you guys seem to be immune to accountability.

Also, gortexgrrl, you have not shown that I have a log in my eye. That is what we are all waiting to hear. "I feel that it is the case" won't cut it either. If you are trying to argue that posting all of this stuff is somehow not being "gentle," then that is just simply laughable. Can you not tell who someone is, and present information in a gentle fashion, and, in a likewise fashion, publically, call this person to repent? How are these things somehow self-contradictory?

When you call someone a psycho with phrases such as "get some help," that is most certainly a violation of that verse. I am close to someone who is going through mental help right now, and your comment was mean to the core. However, you don't care. That is the whole point. As long as it is in service to Debbie Maken's movement, it is just fine, apparently.

Gortexgrrl, as I said, your behavior is absolutely unacceptable. Your accusations are silly, and you know it. I cannot force you to do what is right. That will have to be between you and God. However, this is a discussion I will be pointing people to for a long time to show just how nasty the radical version of this movement is.


gortexgrrl said...

Adam, when I say "get some help", I say it with heartfelt sincerity. Please, go to whomever provides this kind of support at Trinity. You are destroying your career, your reputation and your soul. Do it now.

PuritanCalvinist said...


Then why is it that you are the only one that can see it? I had absolutely no one at all tell that to me on my last post.

Gortexgrrl, what does that tell you, when you are seeing things as "nasty" that no one else can see? Doesn't that tell you that, perhaps, you need to go back and reevaluate what you view as nasty, and the standards you hold?

Might I point out [not to exhonorate myself if I have done something wrong, but simply to point out that you are using a double standard] that people have said far more nasty things that I ever said to Captain Sensible in that post. Consider the manyluxuryvacations blog for example. You never went and raised anything about it then. You never told them to "get help." Why all of the sudden now?

The reality is that what I did on my last post was not "nasty" in any way. It was simply a way of hoping that Captain Sensible would stop the personal attacks on her blog if people knew who she was. As I said, there are real people back here behind these keyboards. You can't say anything you want in service to "marriage." I was hoping that Captain Sensible would realize that and stop the acid. Apparently, it has only made it worse.

God Bless,

Anonymous said...

Hey when can we see your picture?

I am sure there are a lot peoplr here who want to see your mug.

How come we have no pithy commnents from Ted Slater?

Ted, where are you?

Emily said...

Holy Mary Mother of God.

I am no longer a practicing Catholic, but I think I need to revive my rosary.

This acid is pure spiritual warfare.

Emily said...

Do you think gortexgrrl is real?